I’ll give my take on it. Something many fail to grasp is that it’s not about a singular thing, you need to look at the context. Let’s go through some of it:
Andreas Kling, lead developer of (now-)Ladybird, rejects PR that changes “he” to “they” in documentation.
This is the most frequently mentioned example of Andreas’ issues.
The “he” in question referred to any user, where “they” is already commonly used instead by everything from companies, to news, to the Linux Kernel docs (an arguably much more important software project).
Andreas’ exact words: “This project is not an appropriate arena to advertise your personal politics.”
This code was eventually merged 3 years laters in a different PR, this time described as “Grammar fixes” (it changes even more pronouns to gender neutral than the original did).
This PR was merged two hours after its creation and coincidentally around a month after Andreas announced his stepping down from the project.
Andreas Kling likes interacting with far-right, queerphobic, or otherwise controversial persons.
Here’s him calling Brendan Eich, known homophobe, kicked out of Mozilla for… being a homophobe, now CEO of the foremost crypto browser, infamous for its bravery and attracting like-minded fans, “Senpai.”
Trudging through Bryan’s slop wears on the mind, but here’s another example of him being ridiculous. Highlight of the article: “There are multiple Software and Computer organizations which have declared their support for the Trans fetish over the last few years…”
Read anything by Bryan, then look into what he’s talking about. There are at least as many examples, as there are times Bryan has touched upon LGBT topics or linux in recent years.
Here’s relatively prominent KDE developer Niccolò’s hour long video detailing how Bryan is a horrible, lying “journalist,” and how people need to stop giving him a stage.
He also often interacts with other various degrees of right-leaning users on twitter, a platform he describes as full of positive energy, unlike Mastodon, which he’s not a fan of.
Other quirky things about Andreas that could be irrelevant in isolation but… please, put the pieces together. I’m begging you, look at the full picture. Is there truly nothing off about all of this?
Hey, remember that time Linus Torvalds, creator of Linux, called himself a “woke communist” on a public rant on the fediverse? He must be having an identity crisis now, huh.
Someone once implied that if people didn’t like Andreas’ views now, they would’ve abhorred his Liked list before Elon made those private. It’s a random person’s word, so don’t take it as fact, but I need to share this because I’ve seen similar situations before, and it fits the pattern.
Would I look at that PR and say I’m not touching Andreas with a ten-foot pole? Maybe that’s excessive. Would I ignore all the rest and say he’s just misunderstood? Hell no. For all its issues, I do hope Ladybird succeeds as a new browser engine because the internet needs more of those. But I cannot support it until Andreas gets his shit sorted.
The issue is that he’s politically polarized into believing that the word “they” is inherently “political.”
It’s great to hear he doesn’t partake in dehumanising others for their past behaviour/statements
Calling someone out for doing shitty things isn’t “dehumanizing,” you fucking disingenuous hagfish.
All documented behavior is necessarily in the past. Do you mean we must assume he’s changed based on no evidence? Or is their some magical timeframe beyond which certain beliefs must have changed?
If you’re feeling attacked by people calling out Andreas Kling and Brendan Eich for their irrational prejudice against people who aren’t straight and cis… Good! It means you have enough self-awareness to realize you fit that category too, so now you have the option to change that. Or you already have made that change, but still feel guilty about who you used to be—in which case I, a LGBT, give you permission to stop feeling guilty and move on with your life! Just stop jumping to defend assholes with paperthin excuses that sounded good when they were brought up in their “apolitical” echochambers
If you read the commit, you would see it was referring to a built-in non-human account.
In no way did he assume the gender of any people, so who cares if he referred to a built-in account of his operaring system as ‘he’ instead of ‘they’?
A more accurate description would have been ‘it’.
As somebody who also identifies as LGBT, I don’t want or need your permission to feel anything.
I don’t feel guilty for not participating in the cancel culture of the internet.
I did read the commit, and I loved the part where Andreas Kling said:
This project is not an appropriate arena to advertise your personal politics.
As his reason for dismissing it. Because the commiter was trying to use idiomatic language for a builtin account. But it must be “politics” because pronouns amirite.
That also ignores all the other points brought up about his questionable values.
I don’t feel guilty for not participating in the cancel culture of the internet.
There is no such thing as cancel culture. This is what the Free Marketplace of ideas allows: “your ideas are shit and I won’t support you and I will let others know.” That’s not “cancel culture,” that’s just how society fucking deals with toxic ideas that harm communities.
As somebody who also identifies as LGBT
Then put the bare fucking minimum into acting like you’re part of a marginalized community, and stop rushing to defend online chuds who support that marginalization from being critiqued. Seriously weird simp behavior.
Sure. Lets just ignore ladybird/serenity and the positive impact Andreas is making because he didn’t accept a commit that changed a pronoun for a system account on the operating system he wrote from a ‘he’ to a ‘they’.
And lets ignore that it’s been changed since. People ‘never’ change, so lets fuck up their entire career and public image for life.
Yeah no thanks.
If you think that comment outweighs all the positive impacts Andreas is making, that’s your prerogative. I’m not interested in holding everyone up to such high expectations.
Sure, ignore him being pals with the homophobe CEO and welcoming Mr. genocide because he made cool tech. Because being a developer puts you above mere ethical issues, and saying “I’m apolitical” makes you immune to criticism.
And lets ignore that it’s been changed since. People ‘never’ change, so lets fuck up their entire career and public image for life.
Andreas hasn’t changed, that’s half the point of my comment. The PR was sent by someone else, merged by someone else, disguised with a different title, and all after his departure announcement. Someone approached him about it later, and Andreas himself admits he hasn’t changed his mind. Did you read nothing? Where’s this change you’re so confident about?
And I’m not ruining his career, that’s absurd. I couldn’t manage, even if I wanted to. Look at the niche forum we’re in. Even so, I’ve defended his work, his skill, the very idea of Ladybird, the need for more browser engines, even the tooling. But unless people shut up and never criticize him, it’s just not enough for you.
If you think that comment outweighs all the positive impacts Andreas is making, that’s your prerogative. I’m not interested in holding everyone up to such high expectations.
“Don’t unnecessarily chum up to homophobes and genocide defenders” aren’t high expectations. They’re ridiculously low-hanging fruit, considering our history. Absolutely pathetic excusing of his actions.
Ah yes, because you absolutely must hate and dehumanise everyone who shares a different belief to you. You aren’t allowed to speak to or be friendly to anyone who has shared shitty views in the past, because how else could we possibly know that you don’t share 100% of their opinions?
You’re free to limit your communication to only those who share your views, if that’s what you find comfortable. But there can be many mutually-benefical reasons to befriend those who you dislike.
Anyway, I’m about done with this conversation, as I don’t believe either of us will come out of it with a different view.
Feel free to get the last word in if that helps you sleep easier.
Seeing that you replied to a comment that’s almost a week old, I wouldn’t be surprised if you do.
Seeing that you replied to a comment that’s almost a week old, I wouldn’t be surprised if you do.
I really hope no one reading thinks this redditor behavior is as cool as the author does. Dude seemingly can’t get the point they’re arguing against, so this is all that’s left, I guess.
Yeah buddy, this is to sleep better at night. You’ve shown you’re not stopping the high-school tier debate club logic and the goofy-ass mic-drops.
I’ll give my take on it. Something many fail to grasp is that it’s not about a singular thing, you need to look at the context. Let’s go through some of it:
Would I look at that PR and say I’m not touching Andreas with a ten-foot pole? Maybe that’s excessive. Would I ignore all the rest and say he’s just misunderstood? Hell no. For all its issues, I do hope Ladybird succeeds as a new browser engine because the internet needs more of those. But I cannot support it until Andreas gets his shit sorted.
P.P.S. I’m tired, of all this.
Oh wow… He seeks to be ant alt right in disguise. God damn it.
So there’s no issue with Andreas, just some people he’s interacted with before?
It’s great to hear he doesn’t partake in dehumanising others for their past behaviour/statements :)
The issue is that he’s politically polarized into believing that the word “they” is inherently “political.”
Calling someone out for doing shitty things isn’t “dehumanizing,” you fucking disingenuous hagfish.
All documented behavior is necessarily in the past. Do you mean we must assume he’s changed based on no evidence? Or is their some magical timeframe beyond which certain beliefs must have changed?
If you’re feeling attacked by people calling out Andreas Kling and Brendan Eich for their irrational prejudice against people who aren’t straight and cis… Good! It means you have enough self-awareness to realize you fit that category too, so now you have the option to change that. Or you already have made that change, but still feel guilty about who you used to be—in which case I, a LGBT, give you permission to stop feeling guilty and move on with your life! Just stop jumping to defend assholes with paperthin excuses that sounded good when they were brought up in their “apolitical” echochambers
If you read the commit, you would see it was referring to a built-in non-human account.
In no way did he assume the gender of any people, so who cares if he referred to a built-in account of his operaring system as ‘he’ instead of ‘they’?
A more accurate description would have been ‘it’.
As somebody who also identifies as LGBT, I don’t want or need your permission to feel anything.
I don’t feel guilty for not participating in the cancel culture of the internet.
I did read the commit, and I loved the part where Andreas Kling said:
As his reason for dismissing it. Because the commiter was trying to use idiomatic language for a builtin account. But it must be “politics” because pronouns amirite.
That also ignores all the other points brought up about his questionable values.
There is no such thing as cancel culture. This is what the Free Marketplace of ideas allows: “your ideas are shit and I won’t support you and I will let others know.” That’s not “cancel culture,” that’s just how society fucking deals with toxic ideas that harm communities.
Then put the bare fucking minimum into acting like you’re part of a marginalized community, and stop rushing to defend online chuds who support that marginalization from being critiqued. Seriously weird simp behavior.
Sure. Lets just ignore ladybird/serenity and the positive impact Andreas is making because he didn’t accept a commit that changed a pronoun for a system account on the operating system he wrote from a ‘he’ to a ‘they’.
And lets ignore that it’s been changed since. People ‘never’ change, so lets fuck up their entire career and public image for life.
Yeah no thanks.
If you think that comment outweighs all the positive impacts Andreas is making, that’s your prerogative. I’m not interested in holding everyone up to such high expectations.
If that makes me a simp in your eyes, so be it.
Sure, ignore him being pals with the homophobe CEO and welcoming Mr. genocide because he made cool tech. Because being a developer puts you above mere ethical issues, and saying “I’m apolitical” makes you immune to criticism.
Andreas hasn’t changed, that’s half the point of my comment. The PR was sent by someone else, merged by someone else, disguised with a different title, and all after his departure announcement. Someone approached him about it later, and Andreas himself admits he hasn’t changed his mind. Did you read nothing? Where’s this change you’re so confident about?
And I’m not ruining his career, that’s absurd. I couldn’t manage, even if I wanted to. Look at the niche forum we’re in. Even so, I’ve defended his work, his skill, the very idea of Ladybird, the need for more browser engines, even the tooling. But unless people shut up and never criticize him, it’s just not enough for you.
“Don’t unnecessarily chum up to homophobes and genocide defenders” aren’t high expectations. They’re ridiculously low-hanging fruit, considering our history. Absolutely pathetic excusing of his actions.
Ah yes, because you absolutely must hate and dehumanise everyone who shares a different belief to you. You aren’t allowed to speak to or be friendly to anyone who has shared shitty views in the past, because how else could we possibly know that you don’t share 100% of their opinions?
You’re free to limit your communication to only those who share your views, if that’s what you find comfortable. But there can be many mutually-benefical reasons to befriend those who you dislike.
Anyway, I’m about done with this conversation, as I don’t believe either of us will come out of it with a different view.
Feel free to get the last word in if that helps you sleep easier. Seeing that you replied to a comment that’s almost a week old, I wouldn’t be surprised if you do.
I really hope no one reading thinks this redditor behavior is as cool as the author does. Dude seemingly can’t get the point they’re arguing against, so this is all that’s left, I guess.
Yeah buddy, this is to sleep better at night. You’ve shown you’re not stopping the high-school tier debate club logic and the goofy-ass mic-drops.